Full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” July 20, 2025

On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan: 

• Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick
• Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut
• Immigration and Customs Enforcement acting director Todd Lyons
• Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass

Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”   

MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: The clock ticks, as tariff deadlines loom.

Plus: Do Americans think President Trump is keeping his campaign promises?

The Trump administration promised 90 deals in 90 days, but that didn’t happen. And as the goalposts move again, will Americans face a summer price hike as steep tariffs kick in?

We will ask one of the key negotiators, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick.

Plus: Trump’s almost daily attacks on Fed Chair Jerome Powell.

(Begin VT)

DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): He’s a terrible – he’s a terrible Fed chair. I think he’s a total stiff. You talk to the guy, it’s like talking to a – nothing. It’s like talking to a chair, no personality, no high intelligence, no nothing.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will take a look at the unfolding battle over interest rates with Democratic Congressman Jim Himes, who sits on the Financial Services Committee.

Then: As ICE ramps up deportation efforts…

(Begin VT)

MAN: Spread your legs.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: … we will ask acting ICE Director Todd Lyons about some of the criticisms of their enforcement policies.

And we will ask Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass about the impact of those ICE arrests in her city.

It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.

We begin with a new CBS poll. Six months into President Trump’s second administration, 42 percent of Americans approve of the job he’s doing as president, down three points from a month ago, and down even more from February, when a majority approved of his job performance.

For a closer look at the numbers, we’re joined by elections and surveys, executive director Anthony Salvanto.

Anthony, good to have you here.

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So the two big issues the president ran on, immigration and the economy, why have his approval ratings ticked down?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Well, let me start with immigration, because you’re right, that is a big reason he won, deportation, in particular.

The deportation program started with majority approval. And since then, it’s declined gradually and then a little more over the last month. But the reason for why it has is pretty compelling, and that is a majority now says they think the administration is trying to deport more people than they’d expected it to.

And then it’s the who. They no longer – a majority no longer thinks that the administration is just trying to prioritize dangerous criminals, that that has expanded. And when they think those things, they’re less approving of it overall.

So, another component of this too, which is that you get a majority who doesn’t approve of the way in which the administration is using the detention centers as well. So all of that is in the mix. The other part of this, though, is that Donald Trump’s handling of immigration more broadly is also down.

And that’s happening at the same time that Americans say, because they are, that border crossings have gone down. So, within that gauge on immigration, you see how much the deportation program is really driving things.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we have seen and CBS obtained data that the number one issue in terms of convictions for traffic violations and then immigration.

You looked in your polling at the supporters of the president. How are they feeling?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Very, very strongly behind him and especially on this immigration issue and especially on deportation.

And that’s an important point, right? His base is still with him. What you see in this dynamic is increasingly a base that really likes what it sees and everybody else with growing doubts. The other part of this is, on the deportation program in particular, we have seen declines among Hispanic Americans, and here again, the why.

Hispanic Americans and Americans overall believe that they, Hispanics, are being targeted or sought after for more searches for deportation compared to other groups. Earlier in the president’s term, he had much more overall approval from Hispanics. He had made gains during the election, people will recall, importantly among Hispanics, and now that has fallen off.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So the president just had this big legislative win with the so-called One Big Beautiful Bill. This was tax. This was spending. A lot of these changes haven’t taken hold yet. But what is the perception of it?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: So let’s benchmark this. He’s got majority disapproval on the One Big Beautiful Bill Act.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s interesting.

ANTHONY SALVANTO: And the why there is, and this is at least initially, as we say, it’s that more people think that it will help the wealthy and not help them in particular.

And here we get into focus, because people say the administration is not focused enough on lowering prices and is focused too much on tariffs, which a majority opposes. It’s a – here, there’s that juxtaposition of what they expected, what they want to focus on, and what they see as being focused on.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So the president has been talking about firing the head of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell. We know the Supreme Court said back in May, they signaled here, he doesn’t really have the authority to do it without cause.

But we know the Fed’s job is to manage employment, manage price stability, and they’re supposed to be politically independent, so that there is an interference with the economy. Have you ever polled before on whether there should be – that the president should really be able to do this?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: We haven’t. Most people say they think the Fed should act independently from the president’s guidance.

But on that larger point about the way institutions work, we have sometimes asked questions in this administration about things like, who should have the power of the purse? Who should have the final say on spending? We have asked about things like pushing back against judges who rule against the administration.

All of these things, for context, are new. Now, this obviously isn’t the first president to try to expand executive power. And that has a long history in politics and in polling. But some of these institutional arrangements and public views of them are certainly new for us here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You have a reason to ask, in other words.

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s fascinating.

Anthony Salvanto, thank you.

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: For more on the Trump administration’s economic policy, we go now to Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick.

Welcome back to Face the Nation, Mr. Secretary.

HOWARD LUTNICK (U.S. Commerce Secretary): Great to be here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you heard in our polling some of the perceptions of the economy; 61 percent of Americans believe the administration is putting too much focus on tariffs; 70 percent say the administration is not doing enough to lower prices. And 60 percent oppose new tariffs on imported goods.

This is a centerpiece to your policy plan. How do you reverse public opposition?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Oh, they’re going to love the deals that President Trump and I are doing. I mean, they’re just going to love them.

The president figured out the right answer and sent letters to these countries, said, this is going to fix the trade deficit. This will go a long way to fixing the trade deficit. And that’s gotten these countries to the table. And they’re going to open their markets, or they’re going to pay the tariff.

And if they open their markets, the opportunity for Americans to export, to grow their business, farmers, ranchers, fishermen, this is going to be – the next two weeks are going to be weeks for the record books. President Trump is going to deliver for the American people.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Next two weeks for the record books, because you have that August 1 deadline.

But President Trump sent letters to most of the major trading partners announcing higher tariff rates effective August 1. That could hit countries accounting for three-quarters of U.S. imports. Let’s talk about Canada, one of the big ones. Their prime minister said this past week there’s not a lot of evidence they can get a trade deal with the U.S. that avoids tariffs.

Is your message to Canada, Mr. Secretary, that no matter what they offer at the negotiating table, free trade is gone, there will be a tariff in place?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: No, see, that’s silly.

We have a plan called USMCA, U.S.-Mexico-Canada agreement. Virtually 75 percent of all goods coming from Mexico and Canada already come in tariff- free. The president said, look, unless you stop this fentanyl and close the border, we’re just going to keep tariffs on the other 25 percent. And that’s what he has on.

So don’t be confused about it. The president understands that we need to open the markets. Canada is not open to us. They need to open their market. Unless they’re willing to open their market, they’re going to pay a tariff. That’s a simple message the president has. It’s fair trade. It’s reciprocal trade.

Why should we have our country be wide open while theirs is closed? This is an 80-year wrong that President Trump is trying to fix. And our businesses are going to really, really enjoy it. I think the president’s going to open between $300 billion and $400 billion of opportunity for Americans.

That’s 1.5 percent – up to 1.5 percent GDP growth because the president’s going to open all these markets up.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: You saw it with Vietnam. You saw it with Indonesia. You’re going to watch all these other countries decide, if they want to do business with America, let’s just open our market up to America.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: That’s opportunity that President Trump is bringing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we saw framework announcements with those countries you just mentioned.

But back on what the Canadian prime minister, the man you’re negotiating with, said, he’s assuming there’s going to be a tariff here. There’s already this baseline 10 percent tariff that we are seeing from the administration. Is that set in stone or is it going to go to like 15 or 20 percent?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Well, I think what you have got is, you should assume that the small countries, the Latin American countries, the Caribbean countries, many countries in Africa, they will have a baseline tariff of 10 percent.

And then the bigger economies will either open themselves up or they will pay a fair tariff to America for not opening themselves up and treating America unfairly. So what the president’s view is and what he’s instructed me to do is say, look, if you’re willing to open yourself up and really open your economy to American business to ranchers, fishermen, farmers and businesses, then, of course, we will make a better deal with you.

But if you’re going to keep your tariffs and your tariff barriers holding us down, then, of course, it seems fair that you should pay a tariff to do business with the greatest customer on Earth, the American consumer.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, so just quickly, are you going to renegotiate that free trade deal the USMCA?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Oh, I think the president is absolutely going to renegotiate USMCA.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: But that’s a year from today.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Today, of course, 75 percent comes in free.

But, of course, should you expect us to renegotiate it? It makes perfect sense for the president to renegotiate it. He wants to protect American jobs. He doesn’t want cars built in Canada or Mexico, when they could be built in Michigan or – and Ohio.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: It’s just better for American workers. The president’s got the American workers’ back. That’s why they elected him. That’s why the stock market’s at all-time highs. They understand the president actually understands business and is doing it the right way.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, OK, let me ask you about Europe.

Boeing airplanes, Kentucky bourbon, these are some of the things that the Europeans are looking to target if we get into a trade war as retaliation by them.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: We’re not – they’re not going to do it. They’re just not going to do it. We are…

MARGARET BRENNAN: You just met with the European trade negotiator. He came out kind of downbeat. You disagree? You think we are going to get a deal with the European Union?

(LAUGHTER)

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: I was on the phone with the European trade negotiators this morning about a half-hour ago. So there’s plenty of room.

Look, the president and the European Union, these are the two biggest trading partners in the world talking to each other. We will get a deal done. I am confident we will get a deal done, OK? And it will be great for America because the president has the back of America.

So I think all these key countries will figure out it is better to open their markets to the United States of America than to pay a significant tariff. And Donald Trump has made that point clear. No one has protected America the way Donald Trump has protected America. It is so fun to work for him, because I have him behind me saying the right things for America.

And I get to do those negotiations with all these countries. And you are going to see the best set of trade deals you have ever seen for America and for the American people.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that August 1 deadline with the E.U. a hard deadline? Are you going to get a deal, since you were just on the phone?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: I can’t hear anything.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Can you – can you hear me, Mr. Secretary? It looks like your shot just froze up on my end.

It looks like our remote shot with the secretary is frozen, so we’re going to take a commercial break, try to fix it and try to finish a conversation on the other side of this.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, an update on an important story.

The Hamas-ran Gaza Health Ministry says at least 67 people were killed while waiting for aid from United Nations trucks today. Our CBS Gaza team spoke with eyewitnesses who say that Israeli tanks were behind the hills and, as thousands of people searching for food approached, the tanks opened fire. The IDF tells us that the troops did so to remove – quote – “an immediate threat” in the area and that the reported number of deaths does not match their initial review.

We will continue to track that as we track the hopes for a hostage deal and cease-fire.

But, right now, we want to go back to the commerce secretary, who I believe can hear me now?

Mr. Secretary?

(LAUGHTER)

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: I can hear you now. Yes, I can hear you now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. All right.

But to pick up where we left off before the technical issues, August 1, is it a hard deadline with the E.U. or is that going to slide?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: No, no, that’s a hard deadline.

So, on August 1, the new tariff rates will come in. But nothing stops countries from talking to us after August 1, but they’re going to start paying the tariffs on August 1. Now, remember, the world is paying 10 percent right now, and China’s paying 30 percent. So that’s right now. And that’s why we’re running at about plus-$30 billion a month for the American people.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: You got to remember, this is going to pay off our deficit. This is going to make America stronger.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: We are finally protecting America.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you will have that income if you keep them in place. But if you’re negotiating them away, then they won’t be there. So that is contradictory to me.

But I want…

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Nothing – nothing is getting – no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So you’re not negotiating the tariffs away?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Nothing is getting negotiated away. We have a 10 percent on the world.

No, no, 10 percent is definitely going to stay. Many countries will pay higher, like Vietnam and Indonesia, right? They’re 19 and 20 percent. Most countries will pay higher. The small countries are likely to be 10 percent, but the bigger countries are likely to pay higher. That’s just the way it’s going to be because we can’t have these – $1 trillion trade deficit.

It’s just wrong for America and Donald Trump is going to fix it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And American corporations are just going to swallow that and not pass that price increase on to consumers? What is your projection?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: What, what’s so interesting is that you’re worried about the importers. How about the people who build and employ Americans…

MARGARET BRENNAN: No, I’m asking about people who go to the store to buy.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: … people who make cars here, people who manufacture here? They don’t pay a tariff. They don’t pay a tariff at all.

So President Trump says it all the time. Build in America, you don’t pay a tariff. The idea that these importers are more important than the people who employ Americans, I think it’s just a wrong way of thinking about it. Americans deserve to be employed here and have the best jobs in the world. And that’s what Donald Trump is trying to deliver.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I was asking you about consumer prices, what people will pay when they go to the store.

But in – since you don’t want to answer…

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Oh, I think they will be low. I think they will be low, shockingly low.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Seriously.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The Consumer Price Index doesn’t currently reflect that, though, that the trend is towards higher.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Well, it just went up. What did it go up, a tenth-of-a-percent?

Look, the dollar has declined…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Two-tenths on the core.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: … more than 10 percent, right? So the dollar declining sort of softens tariffs completely. These are small numbers. You’re going to see inflation is not going to change.

Remember, inflation is an expectation of rates continuing to grow. Tariffs are just going to reset the price level for imports, for certain imports from certain countries.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: But everybody is building in America. And, remember, Donald Trump announced over $11 trillion of building in America.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: All that building in America, the construction jobs here, but then, when those products come on the shelves, they come on much cheaper. Energy is cheaper. I think you’re going to see inflation stay right where it is.

And Jerome Powell, who’s held these rates up way too high, way too high, you’re going to see him cut rates. The Fed’s going to cut rates. Mortgages are going to be cheaper. And America’s going to be so much better off under Donald Trump.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, there are reports that the treasury secretary has talked the president out of his threat to fire the Fed chair, since the Fed’s already expected on a consensus basis to be lowering rates.

Are you telling us tonight – or today that he’s not under threat, that he will keep his job?

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: The president is an amazingly transparent person. When he thinks something, he says it.

So he says, look, this guy’s doing the worst job. We have interest rates the same as Gabon. Europe, all of Europe, the 27 countries of Europe, they’re in the 2’s, and we’re in the 4’s. That means your mortgage, everybody who is watching, their mortgage is two points higher than it should be.

So the Fed should be cutting rates. And Donald Trump’s going to try to figure out how to get there…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, they’re projected to.

SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Whether he decides – but whether he decides to let Jerome Powell stay in the job or not, I will leave that to Donald Trump.

I think the guy’s doing the worst job. He’s costing us, you and me and the American people, more than $500 billion. I think he’s costing us $700 billion a year by keeping rates too high. It’s just wrong. I don’t know why he’s torturing America this way. Our rates should be lower.

MARGARET BRENNAN: He doesn’t unilaterally set those rates.

But we have to leave it there. We are out of time. Mr. Secretary, thank you for joining us and sticking through the technical – technical issues we had.

We turn now to the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Representative Jim Himes. He joins us from Connecticut.

Good morning to you, Congressman. You are on the Financial Services Committee, so let’s pick up right there.

The Supreme Court indicated the president of the United States does not have the authority to fire the Fed chair unless there is cause. It sounds like the White House is trying to build a case that they have cause. If they go ahead with it, what happens?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES (D-Connecticut): Yes.

Well, you know, Margaret, the last question you asked the secretary shows what a con man he is. And I just listened to his whole thing. And if you’re over the age of 5, you have dealt with hucksters and con men. Everything’s going to be great in two weeks. By August 1, we’re going to have a deal. The American people are going to be so happy.

Complete failure to understand the facts, right? He said that tariffs are paid by foreign countries. Tariffs are not paid by foreign countries. He said Jay Powell is torturing the American people.

Margaret, you didn’t have the time, but if you had had a minute, you would have said, wait a minute. There’s a Federal Open Market Committee that is comprised of seven Fed governors and all of the heads of the Central Bank offices around the country. That committee, comprised of people who have been appointed by Democratic and Republican presidents, set the interest rates, right?

So this notion that Jay Powell is unilaterally stopping a decline in interest rates, which, by the way, in the face of – in the face – for those of – those folks who know a little bit about economics, in the face of upticking inflation, which we’re seeing, would be absolutely bananas.

So what you just saw was a master class by a huckster and a con man who uses words like torture that are very, very dangerous words, not just for the economy, but for the physical safety of people like Jay Powell.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, just to be clear, that’s why I said it’s not the chairman’s unilateral decision, for exactly the reason you raised, that there is a committee that makes the decision.

The inflation rate for the CPI was 2.7 percent. If you strip out food – energy and food, which is more volatile, it is up two-tenths of a percent, so the economic data is what we are pointing to there, not opinion on pricing.

But is there congressional pushback that can be done? I mean, what happens if there’s a tweet that says the Fed chair is gone?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Well, interestingly, inside the White House – and I don’t know who it is – my guess is, it’s maybe the treasury secretary – is saying – and this is a very difficult thing to say to a person like Donald Trump – that, if you fire the Fed chair, either illegally, which they’re happy to do, or because you trump up some baloney- like charge associated with a renovation of the headquarters, there is going to be a massive market reaction, because you cannot lie to the capital markets.

We saw this the day after Liberation Day, before we all were familiarized with the TACO trade. The day after Liberation Day, the stock and the bond markets took a nosedive. So my guess is that somebody saying to the president, because he doesn’t care if he follows the law or not – and the law is very clear that he can’t fire the Fed chair – but somebody is saying to the president, the economic instability that gets caused when the cornerstone of the global economy and capital markets all of a sudden has a politically driven interest rate policy…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: … I think that’s the one thing that’s holding them off.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, we’re going to take a quick break and continue our conversation on a variety of topics we need to bring up with you on the other side with – of it.

Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: If you’re looking for more Face the Nation, including extended interviews and special content, you can subscribe to our podcast. It’s available on all platforms, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon.

We will be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we will be right back with Congressman Jim Himes and an exclusive interview with the acting ICE director, Todd Lyons.

Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.

We are continuing our conversation now with Connecticut Congressman Jim Himes, who is the ranking member on the Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, I want to pick up on that topic.

Just a statement of fact here. A bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee investigation found that the U.S. intelligence community’s assessment of Russian interference in the 2016 election was correct, they deemed it to be so on a bipartisan basis. I’m saying that because today, and yesterday, the director of the intelligence community, Tulsi Gabbard, has said that she is referring for prosecution former American officials she accused of treasonist conspiracy, a year’s long coo against President Trump because they assessed Russia had tried to influence the election. This is weeks after the CIA director issued a report critiquing the tradecraft that went into that 2016 assessment.

Is there any legal basis for any kind of prosecution here?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES (D-CT): None. Absolutely none, Margaret. What you saw from the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, was not just a lie, but a very dangerous lie. Because when you start throwing around language like sedition and treason, somebody’s going to get hurt.

Now, you pointed out that the Senate committee, then led by Marco Rubio, a Republican and now secretary of state, found unanimously that Russia medaled in the election to try to assist Donald Trump. John Durham, special council appointed by Donald Trump, investigated this, fund that the Senate report was correct.

Now, what Tulsi is doing, it’s a little slight of hand but it’s worth focusing on. She is saying that the Intelligence Committee early on said that the Russians could not use cyber tools to mess with the voting infrastructure, the machines that tally our votes. That was true then and it is true now. Though the Russians tried to break into a couple of states’, you know, election technical infrastructure, they didn’t do it. But it is well known and well established that the Russians hacked into the DNC and undertook any number of influence operations, including buying reams of Facebook ads, to discredit Hillary Clinton. That is not in contention, right?

And what is horrifying about this whole lie out of Gabbard is, number one, it puts people at risk. And right now, you know, the mouth breathers on MAGA online are just going out of their minds based on a lie. And, number two, the intelligence community is full of very, very good people who do their jobs every single day and now they’re watching their leader do something that each and every one of them knows is dishonest and it is a really, really bad thing for the safety and security of the American people when that dynamic is – is – is out there.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That Senate report is online. The findings are – are there. But I understand your distinction there. It’s an important one in influence verses physical hacking.

You are –

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: But, by the way, Margaret, if I may.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: If I may. You asked about the referral.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Here’s the test. This is Epstein all over again. Criminal referrals. We’re going to prosecute Barack Obama. You know, treasonist and seditious. Here’s the thing. And I hope that four, five, six weeks from now. Don’t take it from this Democrat. Four or five, six weeks from now, let’s see if this administration, Tulsi Gabbard accusing a former president of treason, let’s see if they bring charges. They won’t. They won’t, because there’s not a judge in the land, not a single judge, who will treat this with anything other than laughter that will be heard from the Atlantic to the Pacific in this country.

So, the test of this is, four, five, six weeks from now, is the DOJ bringing charges.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: And the answer to that is no. And now we’re going to be in Epstein world. We’re like, wait a minute, treasonist conspiracy by a former president. Why isn’t the Department of Justice bringing charges? And the answer to that question is that it is a lie.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.

On the other topic I want to ask you about, as a Democrat, “The New York Times,” the DNC – is reporting the DNC’s examination of what went wrong in the last election is going to steer clear the decisions made by the Biden turned Harris campaign.

You were very direct early on in calling for then President Biden to drop out of this race. You don’t parse your words normally. Do you actually think it is possible for your party to self-diagnose problems without looking at the presidential race itself in terms of the candidates?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Look, we – we – we need to acknowledge, and every – and all of America saw it on the night of the disastrous debate in the July before the election, that Joe Biden was not going to win the election. That was not just evident in the debate, it was evident in the polling that his people were keeping from him. OK, so that is a fact.

Now, Democrats are a big tent party. We go from Joe Manchin, who’s practically a Republican, to AOC, we is a Democratic socialist. So, we always have a struggle in coming up with sort of one set of policies, one set of messaging. And it’s particularly hard to do when we don’t have a presidential candidate. You know, a presidential candidate, of course, attracts the attention, is sort of the one person who must run nationwide and speak for the party as a whole. Right now we’re having a lot of conversations with a lot of different views. And I understand that’s enormously frustrating to Democrats who are so upset over the result of the election.

But, you know, other than fight back with the tools that we have right now, we’ve got to be introspective about what we have done wrong that resulted in a dramatic win by Donald Trump in 2020.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: There’s an awful lot of rage in the Democratic Party. And my message to my Democratic friends is, fine, I get the rage, believe me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: I was in the chamber on January 6, 2021, and worried for my own life. But the thing to do right now is to be introspective and ask yourself –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: What can we do better to appeal to more people, including those people that we have lost time and time again in elections?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

Fifteen months out from the mid-term races.

Congressman Jim Himes, thank you.

We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mass deportation was one of President Trump’s biggest campaign promises. Six months into his administration, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has deported nearly 150,000 people thus far.

And with the recent passage of Trump’s tax and border bill, the agency will be getting an unprecedented infusion of funds, becoming the highest funded law enforcement agency in this country.

Our immigration and politics reporter Camilo Montoya-Galvez spoke with the acting director of ICE, Todd Lyons, this Friday. And he began by asking whether the new money will help the administration meet its goal of one million deportations per year.

(BEGIN VT)

TODD LYONS (Acting Director, ICE): I definitely think it’s possible. One thing, though, that ICE is historically known for our mission is, we detain to remove. We don’t detain punitively. So, people do hear that increase in the bed space, but it’s not for the long term. There’s no reason for someone to linger in a detention facility after they’ve been lawfully ordered by an immigration judge. We want to insure that they can get back to their home country safely and quickly.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: More than a dozen individuals are facing charges for that violent attack against an ICE facility in Texas. The Department of Homeland Security, as you know, has also reported a sharp increase in attacks against your agents. What do you think is behind that?

TODD LYONS: I think the sharp increase in the rhetoric, especially from a lot of elected officials that are shaming, if you will, or speaking out against ICE law enforcement mission is what’s really increasing these attacks on officers. In that, unfortunately, the Alvarado incident down in Prairieland, that is one that’s really taking it to the next level. Just the increase is amazing. The fact that, like you said, 830 percent increase from last year assaults on officers.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Do you think the increase in attacks against ICE officers is connected to the broader increase in ICE arrests across the country? Because you’re seeing more arrests, you’re seeing more attacks too.

TODD LYONS: I think we’re seeing both. I think because we are more visible in the community. You know, there was – recently people had talked about the amount of support that ICE had under President Obama. Well, during those times, we did make more custodial arrests, those arrests like you would –

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: In jails.

TODD LYONS: In the jails, right? We weren’t really out there. We just don’t see that now with a lot of the sanctuary policies and just a lot of – a lot of lack of cooperation. So, you are seeing us out more.

And I think there is more attention. Kind of like you said, the immigration missions, one of the forefront of this administration. So, there is a lot of scrutiny and – and publicity to it.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: What do you say, Director, to the criticism that law enforcement officials, including ICE officers, should be identifying themselves and that the use of masks could be potentially dangerous, including because it could lead to imposters posing as ICE agents?

TODD LYONS: Yes, and that’s one of our biggest concerns. And I’ve said it publicly before, I’m not a proponent of the masks. However, if that’s a tool that the men and women of ICE t hat keep themselves and their families safe, then I will allow it.

I do kind of push back on the criticism that they don’t identify themselves. Men and women of ICE and our DOJ partners and local law enforcement do help us. They are identified on their vests. You can see the HIS, ERO, federal police officer, FBI, on the back of the vest. So, I – I would push back on the notion that we aren’t identifying themselves.

Now, what I would advocate for, and I’ve said this many times, is I know a lot of elected officials have put forward legislation or proposed legislation about banning of the masks, things like that. I would also want, you know, elected officials to help us hold those people accountable that do docks (ph) or threat an ICE officer or agent or their family.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: So, you will continue to allow ICE officers to wear masks during operations?

TODD LYONS: I will.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Do you know how many of the individuals arrested by ICE are people here illegally but who also have serious criminal records?

TODD LYONS: ICE is always focused on the worst of the worst. One difference you’ll see now is, under this administration, we have opened up the whole aperture of the immigration portfolio. Meaning that, if you’re here illegally and ICE goes out and arrests someone that is released from a sanctuary jurisdiction, are wanted in their home country, and you – an ICE officer finds others individuals with them who are in the country illegally, we’re going to take them as well.

One thing, though, that I’d like to highlight is the fact that foreign criminal records are in U.S. data systems. So, when we do go out and, say, arrest someone that has an Interpol red notice because they’re wanted in their home country, they’re still a criminal. But under the American judicial standard (ph), they don’t have an American criminal history. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have a criminal history in their home country.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: If your agents encounter anyone who is here illegally, irrespective of whether or not they have a criminal record, that person will be taken into custody?

TODD LYONS: If they’re here in the United States illegally, yes, they will. I –

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Those so-called “collateral arrests.”

TODD LYONS: Correct.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: We just, as you mentioned, rode along with border – not Border Patrol, but ICE agents in Maryland, and we saw the agents arresting sex offenders, suspected gang members, the individuals that the president has promised to deport from the country. He often talks about getting rid of the worse of the worse who are in the country illegally.

But we have also seen ICE arrest day laborers outside of Home Depots, in some cases farm workers, people attending their court hearings in immigration court. Is the policy still to prioritize the arrests and deportation of people who are here illegally but also are violent offenders?

TODD LYONS: Yes, ICE Is going to focus on the worst of the worst. And that’s what we do need to focus our limited resources on. That’s one thing I’ve always said from the start.

What’s, again, frustrating for me is the fact that we would love to focus on these criminal aliens that are inside a jail facility, right? A local law enforcement agency, state agency, already deemed that person a public safety threat and arrested them and they’re in detention. I’d much rather focus all of our limited resources on that to take them into custody. But we – we do have to go out into the community and make those arrests. And that’s where you are seeing those increase of if we encounter someone say that is here in the country illegally, we will take them into custody.

In regards to the work site, like you mentioned. One thing that I’d really like to highlight, especially what kicked off June 6th in L.A., is the fact that when you see ICE doing these work raids, like the marijuana grow farm, you – we are going there with criminal search warrants or criminal arrest warrants. Not only are we focused on those individuals that are, you know, working here illegally, we’re focused on these American companies that are actually exploiting these laborers. These people that came here for a better life. You know, either, you know, forced labor, child trafficking, you know, a lot of these work site cases just isn’t a victimless crime of someone here working illegally. And that’s why we’re going there with these criminal warrants to focus on these American businesses that are trying to make an extra dollar on the backs of these people that came here for a better life.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: So, you are planning on holding accountable the employers, the companies that are hiring people who are here illegally, not just the workers?

TODD LYONS: One hundred percent.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Because that has been a concern.

TODD LYONS: It is.

CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Our colleague, Margaret Brennan, recently obtained ICE data showing that only a small percentage of the convicted criminals that ICE has deported over the past six months had convictions for violent offenses. For example, fewer than 1 percent had homicide convictions. What do you make of the data?

TODD LYONS: We can’t look at it just based on violence or the propensity of violence in that crime. What I looked at is, someone has committed a crime in the United States. Now, if you look at someone that’s just been arrested, say for DUI, well, some people might say that’s only a misdemeanor. We may have prevented vehicular homicide down the road for someone who’s a habitual traffic offender. I can’t look at the largest scale of what a specific crimes are – are. you know, whether it’s a rape, a homicide. Of course, you want to get those worse of the worse. But if someone’s committed a crime here in the United States and been let back into the community and are here illegally, we need to focus on that.

(END VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be back in one moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass.

Good morning, Madam Mayor.

KAREN BASS (Los Angeles Mayor): Good morning. Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, glad you can hear me.

We are looking at immigration issues six months in. You have had such a first-hand experience out in L.A. given the deployment of U.S. troops. The president ordered the early release of nearly half of the National Guard from L.A. Have they departed yet? What are the remaining ones doing?

KAREN BASS: Well, I believe they’ve departed, but they were never needed in the first place. And the remaining ones are doing what they were doing all along, which is essentially protecting two federal buildings, one of which in Westwood, where there never has been a big protest against the immigration raids. This is just such an incredible misuse of not only taxpayers’ money, but of the young people who are in the National Guard, who have had to leave their families, their jobs, and their education for this deployment that is completely unnecessary.

Four thousand troops, my understanding is most of the time has been spent in complete boredom, playing video games, and essentially waiting around because, again, 4,000 deploy and about 200 actually used.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The White House, of course, argues they deployed them because there was interference with the operations of law enforcement and carrying out some of the roundups.

There are still enforcement actions by ICE taking place. You have talked about your objections, as you’ve described them, to masked men, unmarked cars drawing guns, snatching people off the street.

KAREN BASS: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve filed a Freedom of Information requests to, quote, “know who these masked men are.”

Why, though, is their identity important to you? Do you plan to prosecute them?

KAREN BASS: Well, no. Let me just explain, because you have people who are literally walking down the street, sitting at bus stops, are individual vendors selling fruit on the street. These masked men pull up in unmarked cars and jump out of the cars with rifles and detain people. So, for the average citizen, it looks like it’s a violent kidnapping. So, you should never have that. They don’t identify themselves. And, furthermore, to your previous guest, how on earth do they know that they’re a threat when they’re just chasing random people through parking lots, at Home Depots, going to car washes and rounding up people. It’s difficult to get your car washed in Los Angeles now because most of the car washes, the employees won’t come to work out of fear that a raid will take place.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the acting director says that his agents, some of them fear that their families will be retaliated against, and that’s why they are covering their faces, that they do wear markings for the agencies that they work with.

KAREN BASS: So –

MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you respond?

KAREN BASS: Well – well, first of all, let me just tell you that the masked men are not from Los Angeles. And so, how their families could be retaliated against? And then what is that to say to local law enforcement, the Los Angeles Police Department, none of whom are ever masked, who always identify themselves, and even hand someone a business card. So, that makes absolutely no sense at all.

And I don’t know, but I have a hard time believing that the woman selling pineapples on the corner will going to attack an ICE agent.

And then when he says that there is identification, the problem is, many of these men are in plain clothes with vests on that say “police.” It looks like something that they could have gotten online. I think it’s really important to point out the extreme nature of the randomness. And, you know, Homan has said, he’s mentioned a number of criteria for why they stop people. One of the points of criteria is physical appearance. Los Angeles has 3.8 million people and about 50 percent of our population is Latino. So, I guess that means 50 percent of Los Angeles could be possible suspects in an immigration raid.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Tom Homan has –

KAREN BASS: It’s ridiculous.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Tom Homan has said, physical description cannot be the sole factor for reasonable suspicion. But things like location, occupation, physical appearance add up, particularly if a person runs away or if there’s a tattoo or something. You don’t seem to believe that.

KAREN BASS: Location, sitting at a – well, location, sitting at a bus stop, walking down the street, selling fruit, no, I do dispute that, absolutely. And, you know, again, the National Guard should have never been deployed in the first place. We did not ask for them. This is the federal seizure of power from a governor deploying the National Guard when the National Guard were not even needed.

We had protests at the end of the violent – at the end of the peaceful protest. There absolutely was – was some violence and some looting and vandalism. We brought that completely under control.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

KAREN BASS: The troops have never been involved in crowd control, never involved in the protest. They have been guarding a building. Our police department and our sheriff’s department are the ones that brought the protests when it devolved into violence under control. We never needed the National Guard in the first place. This is a political stunt, a terrible misuse of taxpayers’ dollars.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

I – there’s more we could talk about here but I want to ask you about fires, because we are now officially in fire season.

KAREN BASS: Sure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It was just six months ago we saw those blazes in L.A. You fired the then fire chief for, you said, a failure to prepare.

KAREN BASS: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you still don’t have a permanent fire chief in that role. Isn’t that a problem? Are you prepared?

KAREN BASS: No. No, I don’t think that that’s a problem at all. Our interim fire chief has 40 years of experience. In fact, he had just recently retired.

I called him in out of retirement during the fires. He was doing the emergency operations center. So, he stepped in, didn’t miss a beat by taking over the fire department. And we are prepared. We do know that it’s fire season.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, is your plan to keep him in place since you brought him out of retirement and put him in an interim basis?

KAREN BASS: No. No, I’m sorry. No, we’re doing a national search. And he is certainly open to apply. But the nation’s second largest city needs to make sure that we search the nation for the best talent. And I’m sure that there will be people in the department that apply. But we want to cast the net wide. We did the same type of search for our police chief.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Well, we –

KAREN BASS: In the meantime, he is more than capable of managing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we wish the city well. We will be watching as you move through fire season. Thank you, Madam Mayor.

KAREN BASS: Sure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week. For FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.